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Maddi Leblanc: Hello everyone and welcome back to another little mini episode this week of the Rise and Glide podcast by Paddle Logger, your favourite paddle tracking app! I hope you guys are enjoying using the app and also listening to this really fun podcast that myself, Maddi Leblanc, and my co host Holly Pye love chatting with you guys about. Holly, I'm very curious to know how your week has been, what's been going on. How's training going? I think I saw not too long ago you were on the water and got to try like the new Starboard Gen R board, which looked like a lot of fun!

Holly Pye: Hey Maddi! Yeah I've been doing a lot recently. I've actually just coming to the end of a training block this week, so I'm in a bit of a recovery week at the moment. Which is really cool to be back to proper, scheduled, structured training. I had been paddling over the summer, but not really putting any thought behind it just going out and having fun, and yeah the last month or so I've been back into a structured plan, so I've taken my body for some adjustment but it's super exciting to be working towards different goals again, and having some structure to my paddling. I got to try the new Gen R! It's such a cool board! For anyone who doesn't know Starboard have brought out a new race board. There was a big demand for a flat deck board, so one that doesn't have a dugout or high sides, which means I guess for starters, if you're falling off it's much easier to climb back on. But it's also completely flat on the bottom, so it doesn't have any of those fancy channels and as a result it's super fast the stability is very different to a dugout board. It took me a minute to get used to it. I've tried the 14 x 23 inches wide and also the 21.5 inches wide, which is the one that I'm currently using. Have you had a go on it Maddi? Have you had a chance to try it? How's your training going? 

Maddi Leblanc: Ooh, yeah, actually I'm very curious to know what you think of the board the 21.5 inch version of that board because I have tried it, I have tried the new Gen R board! I raced it a few weeks ago in Kincardine and I was on the 23 inches and I did like it. We had 3 to 4 ft swells so it was definitely choppy and I found it was really stable actually, when I was going into the pivot turns. It was really funny because the first lap of that race, I actually was nervous to try pivot turns right away because I had never been on this board before, but I never do that, I never go to a race on a brand new board because I'm always very particular with the equipment I was on, but I knew with this race, it was more for fun and I was like "okay, this is still a high stress environment but like, why not test out the board in these conditions because this is the exact kind of conditions I'd be using it for anyway" and I really liked it, but I do have an order for the 21.5 inch board, so that's the one that's coming to me next year, so I'm curious to know your thoughts on the narrower width! 

Holly Pye: Super exciting! Yeah, the narrower width took me a minute to get used to because I've spent... I have paddled obviously narrower boards before like the Starboard Sprint, I have a narrow one. But I don't paddle them so often and especially after the last 12 months where things have been up in the air a little bit for me and I've been mainly paddling a 23 inch wide All Star. So the 23 inch wide Gen R was very similar, however I feel like I was just well within my comfort zone like I was very comfortable, I didn't have to concentrate too hard I could just paddle along, have a nice time, which was great, but I felt like I needed a bit of a challenge and the 21.5 inches definitely was a bit of a challenge to start with. I think because I haven't been on a board that narrow in a while and also whenever I have been on a board that narrow, it's been with really high sides, so lots of volume in the sides, so a bit more stable. So it's definitely less stable than the All Star and other boards that width but with a dugout I guess... If you're going out in choppy conditions or like waves or something where you might need more stability, you're probably gonna still use the All Star anyway and it's definitely not a replacement for the All Star. Maybe it's more of a tech race or a sprint race board. The wide tail makes it really good for pivot turns. But yeah, the All Star still has that kind of edge in waves and in swell with that narrow tail. So yeah, I think you'll do amazing on the 21.5 inches, that'll suit you really well. It's super exciting. Nice. But how's your training been going recently in general? 

Maddi Leblanc: Oh man. Okay first of all, I love to hear you say that, because that gives me a lot of faith in myself! So I've never actually owned a board that narrow. I've owned... my narrowest board is an All Star, but it's the 22.5 inch model and I love that board. I've raced it in so many waves and so many downwinders, and the Carolina Cup, but I love surfing that board so it's been a great board, but... Yeah, I'm really happy to hear you say that. It should be a fun board to learn. I think, yeah, it'll take some time, but it'll be really good.  

Holly Pye: Yeah the first few times I went out on it, I definitely had to concentrate quite a lot and try really hard not to lose my balance and then I went out one day and it was just dead flat glassy flat and I was just standing there. I think I was turning around or something but not doing a pivot turn, just a really slow steady turn to turn around and go the other way, and I just did that silly Bambi on ice move where you run up and down the board a few times, you completely lose your balance, and then I just fell back. That was not so graceful, and I did a very quick looking around to make sure no one saw and then I did exactly the same again about five minutes later! I was like, "what is going on? Maybe I haven't had enough sleep or something" but since then I've taken it out. I guess it's just consistency, isn't it and perseverance! I think I really stand by the motto of y"ou get used to what you use" and... Yeah, I think pushing your comfort zones a little bit. It's a really good way to get faster and get better and I was actually chatting to a friend about it and I said, "it's quite nice to go out paddling or training not just with the goal of getting faster or getting fitter. But actually with the goal of getting used to a board, and improving my speed and my fitness alongside that". Yeah, going out in more and more challenging conditions with the goal of getting used to the stability and practicing my technical skills on it, practicing beach starts and turns and things like that, and focusing on that during the session, which kind of takes my mind off of how painful the intervals are.

Maddi Leblanc: Oh my gosh, yeah, honestly, I couldn't agree with you more. When you look at the highest and the most elite professionals in our sport, they are on the narrowest boards and they're on them because they push themselves out of their comfort zone, and I think you and me we're still working to get to that level, but that's so essential, right? It's like having those moments on the water, exactly what you said. It's not always about going out to be the fastest or the fittest, but sometimes trying that new equipment, testing, and pushing your comfort zone a little bit. Cause... What else is going to make you the best, right? You have to have moments like that.  

Holly Pye: Yeah I was chatting to somebody recently and they pointed out a really good, observation that the best people in our sport aren't necessarily the fittest, they don't necessarily have, this mega high VO2 max or whatever you want to grade that on. Yeah, sure they are super fit but they're not necessarily the fittest, but what they do have is skill. All of the races in our sport are generally one on skill who can do the boy turn the quickest, or who can stand up in the choppy water and I guess the fitness comes alongside practicing those skills as well. 

Maddi Leblanc: Absolutely! I was thinking about it not this past weekend, but the weekend before I was doing a downwind race and my pace was like okay I wanted it to be better... but I remember thinking to myself like "wow yeah downwinding, you know it's not just about who is the fastest because some people in the race were passing me that I knew I'm faster at on flat water, if we were to just go, say 500 metres I know I would beat them". But in a downwind, it's it's all different skills, right? So you're right it's not always about who's the fittest, who's the fastest it can be who's the smartest and who has those kind of skill sets that apply to the different conditions that were given on race day! 

Holly Pye: Yeah lots of people who are quite new to the sport ask that actually. They're like, "how do I get good at downwinding? How do you downwind? Or how do you do this? And how do I develop those skills?" and I am not a coach, but I think the only way that you can do it is time. Just put the time in, keep practicing, keep doing it and eventually, you look back and you see how far you've come and you just get better and better and definitely your fitness comes along with it and then you start to do better in the races as well. Even on those flat races, if you have the skills choppy water skills, you're still gonna do well. Whereas if you only have flat water skills whenever it gets a bit choppy, it's gonna, it's gonna be really tough and I guess the same with technical racing as well. What kind of training do you do for your skills, to practice skills? Do you do specific skill sessions, like practicing turns and starts and things like that, or do you just build it in, or do you just go for it on race day? What's your kind of strategy with your skills? 

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah, that's a great question. I've been working with Larry Cain for the past year now, and he writes all of my paddling programs. What's really cool is we do incorporate a lot of the drills in the program and also too, what we do is we apply flexibility to the program. For example, like this time of year late August, early September we're actually getting into our surf season, so Larry will always write - I'm still in the water six days a week, but let's say Tuesday is usually like sprint intervals day, if I check the forecast and the wind's up and there's gonna be waves on the Great Lakes, he'll tell me he'll say "yeah, it's okay to change the session to a SUP surf because those skills are important too". I remember once he told me, he said "as long as you're not doing that every day, you're not missing the consistent training every day because there's days where it's really important to be doing a specific workout, but if the conditions are good", he says "yeah, go surf" or usually on Thursdays, Thursdays are, like, my longer paddling days he'll write in the program "three times five kilometers, level three pacing, but every two and a half kilometers, do a turn, do a pivot turn" or where I paddle on the Welland Canal it's a man made body of water, and there's a whole rowing course by, and there's a bunch of buoys in the water there too he'll say "yeah just, when you're doing that set, go do it around those buoys so we incorporate a lot of those skills in it", and then some days specifically in terms of downwinding, if the wind looks like it's gonna be really good, I'll take that program, like that workout that I'm supposed to do, and then I'll do it in a downwind. For example, Wednesdays, I usually do eight times five minutes level three with one minute off in between the sets. For five minutes, I'll be paddling L3 downwind, and I have a girlfriend who has a boat on Lake Erie, so she'll follow me along her boat, and then I'll stop for a minute. I'll literally just stop paddling for a minute, and it's funny, because, it allows you to feel the waves and stuff, too, so you're like, "woo!" and then I keep going, and so I think it's fun to mix up training like that too, because that's the definition of our sport. We work with Mother Nature and I think your training should be like that too, right? Not every day, if you go out on flat water, you're gonna get better. Your speed might get better, your technique might get better, but the other aspects, the skills of the sport won't. That's usually how I incorporate it with my training.

Holly Pye: Yeah that sounds ideal for race day, you're exactly right. You could have any of those conditions on the day of the race and so you need to be able to practice your skills in choppy water, in flat water, whatever. No, I think I do something similar and I guess it's good to mix it up as well. There's certain sessions that I really want to be specific with and I would rather do them on flat water if I can. But definitely there's certain... certain training sessions that I would rather do just with whatever life throws at me, or maybe I would even rather do them in choppy water, especially if it's a longer kind of aerobic paddle. I will often go out in the sea and just keep going along the coast because I find it really hard to hit like certain... if you're doing a really high intensity paddle or like sprints or something, if it's super choppy, sometimes you just don't quite hit those training zones that you're aiming for and whilst you might get the skills you then don't get the fitness. So I guess there's a bit of both and definitely through the summer and like closer to the race day, a lot of my intervals, I might start them with beach starts, sprint out, do whatever I need to do for a few minutes, boy turns, that kind of thing, to mimic like a tech race or a sprint race, and then come back in and recover on the beach and then go again with another beach start. Yeah, I guess it depends what kind of racing I'm doing as well. It sounds like we do some similar stuff. How are you training towards the worlds coming up?

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah. Oh, man. I've planned to just compete in the ICF World Championships this year in November in Thailand because last weekend when I did really well at our Canadian Nationals, that qualified me for the ISA Worlds. But when Larry and I kinda sat down and had a conversation there was like a bunch of factors to consider and the biggest one being "how do we keep you physically fit and physically peaking for competitions that say, happen at the end of September or happen in November". So when we looked at the calendar, we just realized while the training blocks aren't really well spaced apart they're just far enough apart from each other that in a weird way, it's not a lot of time to have an athlete go back to a base loading phase and an aerobic kind of capacity phase to then work on speed intervals, high intensity, and then peak. I wouldn't have enough time to do that for both worlds and I'm still in that process of I'm still trying to get better and I'm still trying to refine my technique and do all of that.

So when we did the math, we were like, okay "Thailand is now, I think last week we were like, it's 11 or 12 weeks out now that gives us roughly 5 weeks to scale back, and then work again on a base loading phase in terms of strength, in terms of aerobic capacity, so having scheduled again those kind of longer paddles with some some periods some little spurts of like L4 work like some interval training so that I don't lose all of the speed I did just build up this year to this point, but focusing more on like resting and recovery and like giving your central nervous system a bit of a break and then I think that puts us with six weeks out to then pick up the pace again, incorporate more high intensity, like come back to speed work, that we'll put on the back burner for now, but bring that back and then be ready to like peak and have a really good performance in Thailand". So that's the game plan for the next little bit.

Holly Pye: Yeah. Gina Have you decided which races you're going to compete in at Thailand? 

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah I've signed up for all three. I think if I show up there and there's something up with the conditions again maybe I might have to reconsider what my goals are and what my expectations are, but it's funny because last year in Poland I remember I thought I was smart because in my head I was like "I'm just gonna sign up for the tech and the distance. I don't like sprinting, so I'm not gonna do that and also it gives me a break in between races. I can just have two that I have to focus on and I don't have to worry about being tired because I'm doing all three". But then, when we went to Worlds and I watched you in the sprints and I watched Kirsty in the sprints and actually the rest of my teammates in the sprints. So it was like... "Man, I'm missing out on all the fun. I should have just signed up for this anyway". Not knowing I'll be a world champion in sprints, but I could have just tried. It's like I'm already there. I flew halfway across the world. I should have just done it anyway for the experience.. and then too, I had a knee injury last year. So with the conditions of the distance race, that was too insane for me to put myself in that. So I didn't compete in the distance. So I only ended up competing in the Tech Race, and I remember it was still really fun, and I made it to the semi finals, so I was happy with that, but I also was upset with myself, that I was like "wow, okay, I only came to Poland to just now compete in the Tech Race" and that was not what I wanted. This year I said to myself "you know what, you're going to sign up for all three, you're going to compete in all three, and yeah, it is what it is, so end of story. No ifs, ands, or buts". How about you? Are you coming to Thailand this year as well? 

Holly Pye: Yeah, I'm going to come to Thailand, I'm super excited maybe we can do some kind of live podcasty type thing whilst we're there, like a live video whilst we're in there and that would be super fun.

Maddi Leblanc: We should! That was so much fun last year when we were hanging out in Poland together. Yeah. We did some videos that was good, that was really fun content.

Holly Pye: Yeah, if you want those videos head to the Paddle Logger Instagram page because they're all still there. We've got all of these super cool like skills videos that Maddi and I recorded whilst we were in Poland together. So yeah, who knows what we'll do this year. Hopefully something even more exciting. 

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah maybe we should do like a come taste street food with the Paddle Logger crew. Yeah, send us your requests, send us a DM over Instagram. Let us know what you want Holly and I to do together while we're in Thailand. 

Holly Pye: I would quite happily do a Thai food... Rating or review series. I love Thai food!

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah, that'd be fun. Or like you and me, we just we walk down the street and we go up to random people and we're like "do you use Paddle Logger? Do you use Paddle Logger?" Yeah, just putting people on the spot, I think that'd be really fun too.

 

Holly Pye: Yeah, for sure. No, so I'm going to Thailand this year. I haven't actually booked anything yet. But I plan to over the next couple of weeks. I'm hoping to do all three disciplines. Again sprinting is probably my least favourite discipline. Just because it's over so quickly and I don't feel like I have enough time to make up for any mistakes that I might make. But, I'm, again, just like you, I'm like "well, I'm there anyway I might as well give it a go", and because I have qualified for the Europeans in the sprints this year, I'm doing a lot more sprint training, so maybe I will be sprint fit, but we'll see. So I'm doing all three disciplines. I'm most looking forward to the distance and the technical though and actually our episode with Michael Booth last week was really cool to hear his kind of point of view on long distance racing and like all of the tactical elements that go into it and I'm most excited, like I totally agree, I'm most excited for that race I think. I also think I just suit longer distance racing more, but yeah, I think it's important to go to the race and compete in those races just like you said, the sprints I know you didn't do the sprints last year, but I think it's so important to have... you learn so much from racing that any opportunity to race is a learning opportunity, even if you're not at your best or if you haven't been training for that particular style of racing you can always learn something about getting off the line quickly or drafting or skills or whatever it might be. So really excited. So excited. 

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah and it's so true! When I did nationals last weekend I ended up also... I won the sprint discipline as well just like you and, it was interesting because when I got back to the dock people were looking at me and they're like... this one guy, he was really funny, he's comes up to me and says "can you pee in a cup for me?" and I was like, "oh my god". But these other people, they were making comments, they were like, "Maddi you were board lengths ahead", and I was like, "really?" because I just wasn't paying attention like when I race I'm in the zone, so I don't know what's going on around me. But it did make me realize okay, maybe I don't like sprint racing, but it doesn't mean I'm not good at it, or yeah you learn different techniques that do apply really well to other races, right? I think I thoroughly enjoy downwinding and I think I enjoy it because it's a lot of sprinting. It's like sprint and then you catch a wave, so then you get to chill for a second and then it's like sprint again. So I think because I've been working on that skill a lot this year, I'm like, "Oh, okay, that probably contributed to a really good athletic performance when it came down to that race". So I think for anyone listening out there you should be trying different skills and different races that maybe even if you don't like it, just put yourself out of your comfort zone because you never know what you can learn about yourself as a paddler and what strengths that you may have and or like weaknesses as well too right.

Holly Pye: Yeah, no for sure. I have a theory actually why we don't like doing sprints and that's literally because it's hard. I think over a long distance race or a technical race there's so much more going on that you can think about. You know in a tech you're focusing on the turns and your skills and the other people around you and you're not thinking about how much it hurts, and in a long distance race, maybe you're looking at the scenery, or you're, again you're thinking, you're concentrating about staying in a draft train, or you're focusing on your technique, or there's other stuff going on, and because it's not quite as high intensity, it doesn't hurt quite so much, maybe towards the end it does. Whereas with a sprint race, it's literally just pain from the minute that you start to the minute you finish and also there's so much pressure on it... so much pressure on you as a paddler. People are usually watching and people get conscious of that, or... you maybe put expectations on yourself, and because it's such a short race, if anything happens at all, it's game over. So I think it's the fact that it's hard, and the fact that there's quite a lot of pressure is maybe why we don't like it. But you're right, even if you don't like something, doesn't mean you're not good at it, and it's definitely a skill. That's important in those other races as well. A tech race is essentially just a long sprint and even in a long distance race it's important to have good sprinting as well for the start, the finish, and if you're overtaking someone. So yeah, definitely something that we should all be practicing.

Maddi Leblanc: I agree. Gosh 200 meters... I think sometimes I like... I genuinely hold my breath! I think sometimes when I'm paddling that distance I forget to breathe. But then I'm like, "oh, okay" and then the end comes and I'm like, "why am I wheezing?" and then I'm like, "oh, yeah" because you're right it's really hard. It's really hard. It is 200 meters of just, you're right... it's pure pain, and it's pure grinding it out, when you're done, you feel so accomplished, though, too. It's a very unique feeling that we get from that race.

Holly Pye: Yeah, and if you do well... I think the feeling is very different from tech and long distance races as well. Actually, it's interesting that you mentioned about holding your breath. I hadn't really thought of that but I definitely do that too and that was actually in my training plan for last year, heading heading towards Poland was some like, there were some training sessions where I was working on my acceleration and some of the intervals in that session were like 15 seconds. I can't remember if they were 15 seconds or 15 strokes whilst holding your breath, like all out. And I was like, "Ooh, this is weird" and I gave it a go, and it was super hard. I'd finish them and be like "breathing heavy" but maybe, I don't really know how it works, but maybe it did work. 

Maddi Leblanc: That's right. No, you know what, I think funny enough, yeah I just do it I don't consciously think about "okay, I have to hold my breath for this long" but I think it's natural we probably do it when we're sprinting. The fact that someone's telling you "Okay, I want you to hold your breath for 15 strokes or seconds" or whatever, you're like, "okay, wait, what?" It's weird to start thinking about it because you don't normally think about it. But there's so much power that the breath has when it comes to athletic performance for sure and there's so many cool books and... and athletes that talk about it now and use it in their training, so I think that's really cool that you actually got to do some of that before last year.

Holly Pye: I'd actually love to learn more about, the breath and breathwork and breathing techniques. Maybe we should get someone on to the podcast soon and have a chat with them about breathing. That would be super fun. I think that the reason that I was taught to hold my breath during sprinting for a few seconds was to do with the anaerobic capacity or, your muscles not using oxygen. But yeah I've never really practiced breathing techniques, so I'd love to learn more about that and I know you did quite a lot of work on that over the winter. So maybe we can chat about that sometime soon. But we have a super exciting guest lined up for next week where we can talk about all of this, the ins and outs of training in a lot more detail. So really excited for that. Can't wait to share it all with you, but for now it's a bit of a secret. So you'll have to wait and see until next week. 

Maddi Leblanc: Thank you guys so much for listening to Holly and I chat today. We are both very excited and looking forward to the ICF Worlds in Thailand later this year in November, and yeah seriously, any content that you want to see, any paddlers that you want us to talk to, please shoot us a DM, send us an email, whatever, just let us know. Yes, and leave a rating, heck yeah! We love ratings, and yeah we want to hear from you guys. All of the love, all of the support, we really appreciate it so far. So thank you so much for tuning in to the Rise and Glide podcast, and we cannot wait to see you next week! Whee hoo!

Maddi Leblanc: Rise and Glide is brought to you by the team behind Paddle Logger. Get more from your paddling with the Paddle Logger app. Find it on the Apple App Store today.