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Holly Pye: Hey everyone! Welcome back to another episode of Rise and Glide. Today we're super excited to chat with Michael Booth about all of his racing and coaching so far. But before we get into the episode, I really want to chat with you Maddi, about your weekend. How has it been? How did your weekend go?

Maddi Leblanc: Hey Holly, thank you so much for asking about my weekend. It was absolutely so incredible. I think it was probably the best weekend of racing ever for my athletic career as a paddling athlete. Trying to make a name for myself and trying to work my way up the ladder in the racing world. We had our Canadian national team trials this past weekend in Collingwood, Ontario, which is really cool. Collingwood sits at like the southernmost base of Georgian Bay, which is like a little arm. It's a branch off of Lake Huron, which is one of the five great lakes that we have here in North America. The lake it provided everything, it was just a beautiful weekend playing with the conditions that Mother Nature gave us and very happy to say that I took home all three wins in all three disciplines! So the technical, the sprint racing, and the distance race, and it's weird even just saying that out loud, it's I still can't believe it it's something that I just actually never thought would be truly possible and not in terms of doubting myself, just in terms of actually being able to win all three disciplines! Sprinting isn't really my jam I didn't have high expectations for that race or even the technical... distance is the discipline that I love the most, and, the conditions this year were great. We had a 20 kilometer downwind section, so I was really excited about that, but yeah, winning the tech and winning the sprint was just like the cherry on top of a really cool weekend and working really hard. Yeah it was awesome. I appreciate you asking about it. 

Holly Pye: I'm so happy for you. Really well done. Really well deserved as well. You've worked really hard leading up to this. Yeah, that's great. What were the what were the races like? Were they... You said it was a 20km downwinder on the Sunday for the distance race, was it quite windy for the sprints and the technicals on the Saturday as well?

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah, we had a little bit of everything, so the Saturday... It was so funny we woke up and in the morning it was just piss pouring rain, it was just torrential downpour and we were all like, "oh man", no one wants to start off a race, like, all cold and wet, but we're like, "okay this is probably what we'll have to race in", but it was incredible in the fact that literally a half an hour before we started, the rain stopped and then the sun came out we ended up having quite a bit of wind from the west when we started the technical race, it ended up being 5 kilometres, and we went out and left the Collingwood Harbour, and went into the open lake. When we went into the open lake, it was quite choppy. I'd say 1 to 2 ft swells. It wasn't anything big, it was just really messy. It was a lot of side paddling, and we had to go around two buoys out in the open lake. That was challenging for sure. It was probably the hardest side chop I've ever paddled in, I was like, "wow, this is really hard". But I finished the 5K, I think, in 36 minutes, so nothing crazy. Not my fastest 5K, but not my slowest, so I felt happy about that. Same thing funny enough too, right before the sprints, the rain came back, so it poured for 10 minutes, and then... The sun came out and we're like, "wow, okay, this is awesome" like we're going to go start the sprints and the sprint was just a straight away, like 200 meter sprint. It was funny because I had my headphones in and I listened to really aggressive music before a sprint race. Cause again, it's not my forte so I just need everything I have to muster up the motivation to do a sprint. So I had my headphones in and my phone all of a sudden just starts beeping. Like it goes, "wee-oo". And I don't know if it's a thing that happens anywhere else in, in other parts of the world, but at least in Canada, it only our phones. Everybody's phones will do that if it's two things. So one a very serious weather emergency. Or two an Amber Alert like, when there's a missing or stolen child. When that alarm went, that, those are the two things that went off in my head. I was like,"oh my god" looking at my phone being like, "oh my god, is there a missing child or what's happening?"

But then it ended up being like a tornado warning. So the weather network was like, "tornado warning for Wasaga/Collingwood area" and I was like, "oh my god here we are on the water". We're getting ready to do the sprints and... I turned and looked at everybody and I was like "this is motivation to go fast this'll help us get off the water" because the sun was out and everybody was still walking up and down the pier nobody was like, really actually worried that there was gonna be a tornado. We ended up just doing the race anyway, and yeah, no tornado passed, and it was great. It was nice because there was a breeze but because it was still coming from the west it actually blew us downwind a bit, so it was funny, we're all on the starting line, but everybody's like trying to keep their boards straight, because almost like the ICF Worlds in Poland last year, you're getting blown by the wind a bit, so you're trying to stay in position, but it was breezy we did the best that we could with that. Sunday was fantastic because they had told us all day on Saturday They're like if it stays like a WNW wind, and if it's like really aggressive we're not gonna make you guys go and do an out and back course we will literally set it up so that everybody will go downwind and the conditions just kept getting worse and worse in terms of the wind going up higher and higher. So everyone was like, "okay please let's run this as a downwind". Then, yeah, the night before Sunday the race organizers were like, "okay, the call has been made, it's official, it's a downwind" and I was just jumping with joy. I was like, "YES!" Because I love it. I love downwind. I don't mind going upwind for a little bit, but with the winds that we had...

It produced 3 to 4 ft swells on on Georgian Bay it, it was ocean like, almost. I was very happy that they changed it, and the conditions were perfect. I'm paddling out there this one guy is named Shaun Carney, he took a photo of me and he just sent it to me this morning, and it's so cool, cause it's a photo of me just standing on my board, and you can tell I'm kind of bracing a little bit, but I'm like super chill and like you can't even see my board because that's how big the swells are like you just see it looks like I'm standing on water or something  you can't even see my board and I'm just like "wow". Yeah that sums up the day you know - the water it was Hawaiian blue, it was crystal clear, the wind was howling, the swell was perfect. I couldn't have asked for better conditions and a better race to win that one felt pretty sweet coming in at just over 20km, I was, like, "yeah, that was awesome" it was almost the same distance as the Carolina Cup and my time was like so much better too than Carolina Cup, so it felt pretty good, it felt really good. 

Holly Pye: Well done. And that's something actually that we spoke with Michael quite a lot about, is just making the most of what you are given on the day. Which is a really cool way to sum it up. So what does that mean for you? What's next? You've obviously become the Canadian National Champion, which is great. Are you going to use that to get to any other races this year?

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah, I'm not 100% sure yet it's really cool and very special this year that a majority of the paddlers that were at this event as well qualified to be at the ISA World Championships in in France in a month, pretty much, like basically in September. A few of us are talking, and as you know Holly, like everything in this sport, it's self funded, it's self organized... organizations try to support you, but it's just not really quite there yet, and basically a few of us have been chatting to see if it's possible to go to France. But I've already planned to go to the ICF Worlds in Thailand this year I'm really half and half right now about France, because after this weekend I'm very excited in the fact that I qualified, but whether or not I'll actually have the financial assistance the budget to go, the time to go now organizing our team, it's, it seems a little challenging with just over a month out. But yeah, I'm not sure. We'll see. Everything's up in the air at the moment, but... I feel like that's just the way the sport goes right now. 

Holly Pye: Absolutely. And that brings us really nicely onto introducing Michael, actually. During this conversation we spoke to Michael Booth, who, for anyone who doesn't know, firstly, where have you been? But also... so Michael Booth is a multiple times SUP world champion. He's from Western Australia, so he's obviously also multiple times Australian champion. He does a whole variety of paddle sports. So we spoke to him mainly about stand up paddling, but he also does a lot of surfski and surf life saving. He's also, in the last few years taken up coaching. So he runs Booth Training, which is a really successful training platform and he also does lots of clinics and in person coaching as well.

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah, Michael Booth was a very fun person to talk to. I really enjoyed this conversation as well, Holly. I think we both asked him really cool and fun questions that we don't get to ask many athletes, so I really hope our listeners enjoy the quality of this episode.

Holly Pye: Absolutely, yeah! Let's hear what he has to say... Hey Michael, so good to have you on Rise and Glide today, thank you so much for joining us. We're really excited to have a conversation about what's been going on recently, how you got into paddling, and all things, yeah, all things Booth training. How are you today? 

Michael Booth: I'm doing really well. Holly and Maddi, thanks so much for having me.  

Holly Pye: No worries. I think before we get into the real details of the episode, it'd be really good to hear more about you as a person. To all our paddlers and all our listeners, I'm sure they know who you are and they've been following your cool adventures online. But tell us a bit more about you, about how you got into paddling and how you got to where you are now.

Michael Booth: Okay, how I got into paddling, how I got into stand up paddling... around 2014, I had a friend who was starting up a paddle brand it was called Gulliver, and yeah, I just thought I could do something I could do well at. I was always involved in paddle sports in Surf Life Saving, and Ocean Ski Paddling and obviously then transferred over to stand up, so I just thought it was something I could do well at. So I threw the dice and I had a gut feeling and I got involved that way and slowly built up from that point. I always say I wasn't a good paddler straight away, like when I first did my paddle back, I think it was 4km's and every 500 meters I had to sit down because my legs would get so tired and, so there was a lot of things I had to learn along the way. Like I couldn't turn my board... I used to always fall off the cans, everyone used to get angry at me and all that type of thing. But about me... I guess I'm just a guy who tries really hard and works hard at what I do and that's it. But most of all he really enjoys, the paddling, the community, and just being a part of, the ocean and that type of lifestyle. 

Maddi Leblanc: That's so cool. I love actually you saying that point of when you were getting into it and not always being the best guy... I remember so long ago also around the same time I was getting into SUP racing, I was reading these articles "Michael Booth is the Dark Horse of SUP", and I'm like "who is this guy?" and I feel all those beginning articles, too, talked a lot about you as "oh, he's just this flat water paddler he's not really an ocean guy" and I remember thinking to myself, "isn't he from Australia though? Doesn't he live on the ocean?" Like how is this a narrative? How is this a thing? But I look at your career over the course of the past few years. It's just so crazy cool how much you have changed and have progressed and developed and that must be like a really neat thing to look back on.

Michael Booth: I think with anything like that, it's all like intrinsic and extrinsic motivation, and that changes over time, and I think when I was reading that... I think Chris Parker was the main guy posting that I was the dark horse. But then also posting that I could only do flat water. That was like when the SUP, when SUP Racer was really big and we all used to focus on it really hard, like the rate, the rankings, and what he was saying, and all that type of thing and he was always saying I wasn't a downwind paddler, which made no sense, because I came from a downwind sport at the time. For me, the actual, turning point, I think, was Carolina Cup. We're coming into that final section coming out of, I think it's called Mason Inlet. I always get mixed up with Mason Borough, Mason, so it's one or the other, and we had about 7kms to go and I had a downwind against Titouan, Travis Grant, I think Connor Baxter was there, Mo Freitas like in that downwind sport, I guess of stand up paddling. That was the turning point. I was like, "I've got to beat these guys and prove everyone wrong" and that's something that's always driven me. Different things. I always, I really weird like that. I really enjoy when people put me down or like there's comments and things that you see online and it's okay, cool, that's awesome. I can use that as motivation to get better, and they always say enjoy the haters because they're the people that a lot of the time push you to be the best you can be. 

Holly Pye: That seems to be a really common theme with our guests so far. We were chatting to John Hibbard recently, who founded Red Paddle Co, and he was saying he loves it when people tell him no. All it takes is for someone to tell him no, or someone to tell him he can't do something, and it's I'm going to prove you wrong. It definitely works. 

Michael Booth: Yeah it's always, I think it's always the thing... with most things, you've just got to be consistent and stay the path for a long period of time, and most things take three years. I always I had a friend actually, I think you mentioned we might go into Molokai later on - but when I was first doing my first ever Molokai, it must have been 2012 on the surfski, and Martin Kenny, a great surfski pal from Australia, said to me, everything takes three years. The first time you go and participate, the second time you go and mix it up, and the third time you go and try and win. That's something that I've always considered with everything that I do, whether it's business or sport or, just everything's day to day. I always look at the long term and that's something that, that grind and using that extrinsic motivation or even that internal motivation where you want to learn and you want to be the best and you want to, be the best you can be. I think there's like that overall overarching, motivation from all different aspects and that's something I drive from. 

Holly Pye: Cool. Did you always, were you always into paddle sports from when you were young? 

Michael Booth: Definitely. We grew up two houses from the beach in a place called 'Caves Beach' in Newcastle and my brothers were involved in surf lifesaving. So at six years old, I think I, I started sport doing that and it was all about going in and out through the surf and going swimming training and running and all the different attributes that you have in Surf Lifesaving. That sport really taught me so many different things about not only racing and being skilled in different ocean craft, but actually about community and doing things for the right reason and building like quite a good base to springboard off whenever I wanted to, try my hand and try and be really good at something.

Holly Pye: Did you find that crossed over to SUP quite well when you did start paddling a stand up paddleboard more seriously? Did all of your kind of background in surf life saving and other paddle sports cross over or was there like a whole new learning curve? 

Michael Booth: It was very helpful, but it was a whole new learning curve. Being involved in Surf Life Saving and ocean ski and swimming and running and everything else when I was a kid it gives you a good base of fitness, but it also gives you a good skill level that you can, adapt in most things. Like going in and out through the surf, catching waves, popping waves doing downwinds on the ocean to ski. But the thing that I guess was a big learning curve for me was, doing it all standing up. It was a bit different, even at those early times, you still had people going as narrow as they could and I was on 23 inches, this is crazy and building my leg strength up again which I didn't realize I didn't have, but I really didn't have it and how do you really work my core strength, doing all those different exercises to make sure that I could balance what I could do with my upper body, with my legs. I think learning my competitions as well, like the formats in stand up are quite different. You've got technical racing, sprints, downwind long distance in swell, wind in paddling in lakes, you've got, obviously technical type stuff when you got to strategize in events when you're competing, like in packs and that type of thing. You might have to contend with people's wake, or you got to wash right, or you got to sprint away from people, or all those type of things that took me a little bit to get used to at the start. Like I know my first EuroTour was I was really having to learn a lot on the go. I was able to do quite well pretty quickly because I knew how to paddle. I think going through those different sports that I mentioned, I was always a good trainer, a good paddler, but to be able to adapt that over to stand up took a little bit longer. Longer than I maybe thought it would but at the same time, it wasn't probably as hard of a transition as somebody who hasn't really done paddle sports before.  

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah, absolutely. Would you say now that you've been competing for quite a while, that you have a favorite discipline or a few favorite disciplines, or does it just depend on the race? 

Michael Booth: Oh, definitely distance racing. Yeah, I've never been a guy who's had much speed. People laugh at me when they say that "oh, you're still pretty fast", but I'm not fast like the fast guys - I can get reasonably close to them, but I've never been able to, get that stroke rate up, get the power down over that shorter distance. Whereas, something I've usually been able to excel at is, those, anything over really 8, 10, 12, 20, and maybe sometimes a little bit longer. That's where I really feel at home and I come into my own in races. I feel strong. I can maintain a good pace. I can outlast a lot of people and you're just focusing on different things, and I find it super enjoyable. It's funny when you see people say distance racing is so boring, but at the same time, when you're doing it, it's so exciting. The whole time, you're like, "this is awesome I'm racing against the best guys, I'm trying to match them, I'm trying to beat them through these sections, like, where can I get away, or where can I, rest and save myself, or what are they going to be able to do?" There's so many different tactics that you can play in those different races, and definitely distance racing is what I enjoy.

Maddi Leblanc: I think that's so phenomenal and as you mentioned distance racing, that could be a variety of things. I think when you first say that, people might imagine, "oh, it's okay, I'm going from like point A to point B, and it's like long maybe it's flat" but that's not always the case - I have to say your performance last year at the ICF Worlds in Poland both you and Holly actually competed in that distance race and oh my goodness, that was anything but flat, that was anything but easy, and I think that really spices up the sport too and makes it super fun and unique, and, I'm actually curious did you have any strategy for that race? Like, how you approached that one? Or did you look at the conditions that day and be like I hope I survive? Or what were you thinking for that race? 

Michael Booth: It was never survival. When I look at my training at home, that's pretty similar. We get westerlies all the time, or a bit from the south, a bit from the north, whatever it is. It's it's very similar to what I train at home. So for me, it was like a, just like a normal day and I understand for others, it is quite daunting, paddling in 20 knots and having a bit of swell and that type of thing. But if you're used to it, it's not really like a... I've been fortunate to be around the coastline since I was six years old. So for me that was like a pretty reasonable moderate day, like there are days I'm like "that is too much", but that probably wasn't the day and I know there was a difference in opinions for that. I know some of the European paddlers who only paddle in lakes and that type of thing, like it's really daunting to paddle in that, but I think a lot of the top guys could handle it quite well. As far as strategy goes, it's hard, so every race is so different whether you are going in and out through surf, you're doing a sitting start, you're doing a standing start, you've got really quick guys who can get off the line really well, some guys can't pop waves, all that type of thing. For me it was like, get off the beach as well as you can and then see where you're at. What was cool about that race for me was, I was paddling and I was paddling quite comfortably, but in the first lap going to the far buoy, which was like two kilometers out, I was getting a lead. And so this is weird, but okay, because I hadn't necessarily had the best, a couple of, sorry, the year prior racing it in Zolnok in the wind, I had a bit of shocker and I was like, "okay you've done this before, just get out in front and just see what you can do" and then when you turn, you have the doubts, you've got, people who are talked up, by different articles and that type of thing and you have Noak Garriot or Tito Ampio, Clement Colmos, all these guys who are really talked up in the downwind coming behind you... and I remember on the second lap, I actually was making a lot of mistakes and because I was focusing too much on what they were doing and not really focusing on myself and that's something I think is quite critical when you are competing is really just focusing on what you can do and for a while. I had to really go "Michael like just sort your shit out and really focus on what you're doing stop focusing on everybody else, like you've been in this position so many times before and you've been able to get the job done. Just do what you can do and you'll do well" and actually at the center of the second lap they nearly called it because I fell in twice just cause I was thinking so much about what they could do and not what I could do. Then when I got back on and paddled normally again and focused on myself, I paddled away again and that was I think for me it was one of my the only times I've ever really got emotional after the race because there's a lot riding on that. I pushed back my wedding a week I think for that one. I like, I did poorly the year before and the year before was quite hard 'cause it was the pandemic and I couldn't race, I couldn't travel, and I came in and tried to do worlds without any preparation and that was, a bit frustrating for me, but overall, I think, strategy and events and that type of stuff I really enjoy and, you just, you should really work out what you're doing on the day and try and get the best result you can for yourself.

Maddi Leblanc: That, that's absolutely incredible. I think Holly you said something similar to me, I think last year actually along the lines of that. As well, that when you looked at the conditions, it was like, "okay, game on, this is what I paddle in all the time at home" and found some familiarity with that, and, I think you said too your dad wasn't nervous for you for that race, he was nervous for you competing in everything else, but not that one.

Holly Pye: Yeah, I think I felt the same as well, because I find the races harder that probably are flat, because they take so much more concentration I don't know, yeah the conditions in Poland were quite tough physically, but for me, I paddle in conditions similar to that quite a lot as well. Maybe it's not like that all the time and probably when it is really windy, a lot of the time I will probably go somewhere sheltered. But I don't, I rarely paddle in really flat water just because the south west of the UK gets a lot of south westerlies and yeah, the water's like that a lot as well. So it was just like going out for a paddle. I knew that we weren't going to be like drafting so much or I feel like, yeah, the kind of tactical or strategy element of it was less, and it was just a case of getting out there and paddling as hard as you could and making the most of the conditions. I found on that race I was definitely weaker in the upwind sections. Just like lack of strength, I think, whereas some of my competitors were much stronger than me on the upwind section, so they were catching me going upwind, and then we'd turn around and come downwind, and I would pull ahead of them really easily. People would fall off, or like just not time the bumps properly, whereas I was pulling ahead of them there. So it was quite a fun kind of cat and mouse game. In a similar kind of way, but yeah, my dad was watching it and he said the same - he was really nervous watching me do the kind of sprint and technical racing But on the morning of the distance race, he was like, "oh, this is Holly's conditions they'll be fine". 

Maddi Leblanc: Haha shout out to Holly's dad, you're awesome!

Holly Pye: Yeah, is that kind of you said, Michael, that you train in conditions like that a lot. Do you tailor your training do you schedule it around the conditions? Or do you schedule it and just do whatever it is that you have to do regardless? Say you have certain interval sessions - will you pick a day that favours them? Or will you just do them anyway? Whether it's windy or waves or what? 

Michael Booth: Usually, when I look at my programming, it's just set out and I do what is required in those conditions. Simply, you don't get to choose your conditions no matter what event you go to. If the conditions are bad, but you gotta go training, then you just go training, and the race is in the same way if a race is terrible conditions or awesome conditions or depending on what you consider is "awesome", what you consider "terrible" because some people consider racing in Poland for example, since we've been talking about it "great conditions" whereas some people find it like the worst thing ever, they would never ever paddle in that, so it's all based on your own experiences and it's all very personal. I think whether you do that, but for me personally, I just try and get as much work done at home before I go away and then try and really specify conditions and if we're doing technical race and that type of thing, specify that a few weeks out. Don't practice your starts, practice the turns that you might be doing, practicing similar conditions. But I don't think anyone really predicted Poland to be so windy. You look at all the videos and stuff that were shown prior to actually us getting there and it was all, flat, clean, clear water. I was actually speaking to a few of the locals before I got there and they're like, "Oh no, it can get really windy and it's can get messy" and that type of thing and I just didn't really believe it. I was like, "nah, no way". I looked at the forecast, I looked at general, or I think it was September and it all looked, pretty standard, but you never know. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I didn't necessarily prepare for it, but, I've been paddling for a long time and fortunately when I go to events there's not really much that can surprise me anymore. But yeah, you never know, there probably is an event coming up that'll surprise me. 

Holly Pye: I remember seeing something that you wrote, this was ages ago, possibly years ago, but it stuck with me that you train with the wrong equipment on purpose sometimes, take a flatwater board out in the waves just to get used to it, or, using ocean boards in the flat and the other way around just because you might get to an event and it's not what you expect and you have to cope with what you have rather than use what's optimal and that's, I think that's a really good idea as well. 

Michael Booth: I think it's just important to control the controllables and when you're having on different craft, you might think you make the right decision. Like I go back to Hungry because it was just a pretty good example for me, maybe in the distance race about 800 meters out it was pretty flat because it was offshore but then I was swinging a little bit further out from that and I was paddling a flat waterboard. I was like, "oh I think I'll be okay with this". I hadn't done much work on it prior to that point because I didn't have one in Australia, I couldn't go test in Thailand, that sort of stuff. It was the pandemic and I was like, "I'll be fine on it" but I hadn't had much practice on it, and when I got out the back, I was like, "I can't paddle on this board in these conditions it's just impossible" and unfortunately, I got found out that day. But then, you learn from those experiences, and you try and make the most of everything else going forward. You can do as, you can control the controllables to a point, but then sometimes things will surprise you. I always look at my decisions and go could I have made a better decision based on all the factors that I knew at the time and like for that event and for a lot of other things. If it's a no, then it's good. Like I'm pretty happy with my, and content and I like to be quite accountable for what I do. But it's when you could have made a better decision that it gets a bit more frustrating. 

Holly Pye: Yeah. How do you kind of balance, Australia is a long way from a lot of the events in Europe... How do you balance the recovery from traveling? Because traveling is tiring and obviously, yeah, you have a lot of travel to do and a lot of preparation before events, whereas maybe some other people only live an hour on the, an hour flight away from the race. How do you work that? 

Michael Booth: If I'm coming to Europe, I usually come about, five days before. However, if I want to come in last minute, I do the two days or the one day thing. You just ignore it and you can still race quite well. I think my biggest surprises have been when I haven't, prepared properly and I just haven't had the time really. I think I wrote earlier in the year, one of my quotes this year was like "90% of what you do just is building up to what the success is, and then 10% is about finding out what happens when you get there". I think it's the other way around, but when you're, focusing on travel and that type of thing, I think it's important to put in the back of your mind, and when you get on that start line, just focusing on what you can do from that point on. Then, even if you make in the same thing when you get into a race, you make a mistake, you forget about it, and you just restart the race from that point and then the next thing, you restart the race, and every stroke that you take, you are starting a new race and I think that's how I try and imagine the travel as well, you're just trying to make sure that you can do the best you can with the circumstances that you're given, and not try and imagine that everything is perfect. I'm not someone who thinks that I can create a perfect scenario I might be able to get pretty close, but at no point will it ever be perfect. Most time I'll race at 90 95%, and I have to be, I have to be comfortable with that.

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah, I think that's really sound advice. I remember, funny enough, actually, Anthony Vela saying something very similar, like, when we trained together for a few months this past winter and we had a race in March that was called the Dana Point Harbour Hoot. So it was going around the harbour and out to a red buoy in the ocean and then coming back in and for most people in Anthony's group they train within the harbour all of the time they don't really go out into the ocean that often like in the wintertime like summer. Yeah, they'll go out when it's warmer, but winter they're always like in - so Anthony would come to practice and be like, "okay yeah, guys, like we want the ocean to be crazy today we want it to be like insane we want to be falling off our boards" and everyone's looking at him like "what is wrong with you like what?" and he'd be like "no like honestly train for the worst so that when the day comes and it's not that bad, then you'll be happy, you should be putting yourself in this mindset of don't expect it to be flat, or don't pray for it to be flat, because 99.9% of the time, that's not what it's gonna be and you'll set yourself up for a better race and a better mindset, if you approach it like that" and... funny enough the day of the race, it was actually flat. The ocean I looked, I was like, "how is there no bump right now?" so everybody in the group was happy, but yeah, I think it's smart to, to think like that.

Holly Pye: I think on the subject of choppy conditions in races as well, even if you do end up going to a location to race where it's super flat, unless you are in the top three paddlers you've got everyone else's wash, everyone else's wake, and that kind of makes it choppy as well. Especially the first kilometre and or if there's any kind of boys to go around it's never flat because you've got everyone else around you, whereas when you're training, if you train on your own, it's gonna be dead flat in those conditions. But it sounds like you do, you've been doing loads of different races of different conditions, different disciplines in the last few months. You've been doing some races in Europe, which are and doing really well at them. But you've also been doing super well at some really longer races as well and recently you did the shore and partners Molokai to Oahu race. Have you been balancing the training for all of these different kinds of events? 

Michael Booth: Difficult. It's always difficult. But I think going back to something I said previously, it's just like trying to do my best with the circumstances that I have, and we also had a lot going on at home, like I've got a pretty full time coaching role down at the surf club here, and also we've been building a house, we only moved in April, and there's a lot going on with that, but just trying to make the most of every Molokai to Oahu, which is an event that is always something that I've idolized in a way, I think it's something that's really cool, crossing the Ka'iwi Channel, Molokai to O'ahu, and there's a lot that goes into it. I think this year there was such a good contingent of paddlers it was arguably the best field that's ever been contested in that event, and I just somebody wants to do as well as he can and I thought I had enough distance in me to do well. Did I do as much work as I wanted to do? Never. I never do as much as I want to do. I always have these grand plans of how I'm going to, map out my training and how it's going to work, but I don't necessarily have the time that I had, when I was early 20s to what I have now, in my early 30s. I just have to - if I have five hours or whatever in the... in one day that week, I might have to go do the long paddle on that day. I can't just on each Saturday "I'll do a long paddle". I can't do anything like that anymore. Like paddling a little bit less, but, making it a little bit more quality and drawing from previous experience, previous kilometers that I've done and I had a good race, like I ended up finishing fourth overall in the, the Molokai to Oahu, but I was also third to the wall. So there's only two cases where I was third to the wall, so I had a couple of guys go around me and I got one guy back towards the end because he had a little bit of a slew, but yeah, ultimately it's such a cool event and I highly recommend, it. Everybody should do it at some point and it's such a... I think those island crossings are so fulfilling in a way. I think it's something special to get up the morning of the race and, fly to the start line and get on the water and paddle back. It's something very special. 

Holly Pye: Were the conditions good on that day? Was the wind strong? 

Michael Booth: No, it was flat. It wasn't flat. There was wind the day before, so there was a good catch, but the problem was. If you wanted to catch something, you had to work a lot harder. And then you can only use so much energy up to catch that before you had to come back to the pack. It was quite interesting, I've never really done a Molokai where you had to sit in a pack and you were almost doing wash leads to a point until about an hour 45 and I think Hank and Hank McGregor went and then I chased him with Corey and with about an hour to go, I was like pretty comfortably third. I had to battle a few cramps towards the end, and that was a bit frustrating, I think, knowing as I said before, doing each race and trying to get my best performance, and I just felt like I had my best performance based on everything I could do, but there was something I probably needed to learn, and that was probably something to do with my sodium content, and I've made steps since then to try and rectify that, and I think that's what keeps you coming back to sport in general, is you're trying to get that Almost perfect race, I won't say perfect race, but almost perfect, where not many things go wrong, and actually, interestingly, I reckon Carolina Cup this year, for me, was probably one of those races where nothing really went wrong. It was weird. 

Maddi Leblanc: Wow that's actually crazy, cause yeah, I remember at one point seeing you fly by, I was like, "Oh, there goes Michael fly by", but for M2O, how long did that take you this year? Holly said you came fourth, but I didn't see your time.

Michael Booth: I think it was 3 hours, 36 minutes?

Maddi Leblanc: That is so fast on a surf ski. That's crazy and I know you said earlier too distance being your favorite, and time just goes by so fast, was it one of those races where, I feel like M2O, I've never done it, but I want to do it one day, and I just feel like when you're in that channel, even though it's so long did it feel like it flew by? Did you feel like, "wow, I'm just going along here" and three and a half hours boom, it's over? Or did you have moments where you're like, "okay, wow, this is really hard. This is really far. I'm almost there". 

Michael Booth: Yes and no. I think when you're in that mindset and you're in the race, everything's going quickly, doesn't really matter how long it takes. You're constantly just, imagining who's around you, what they're doing, like how can I maximise what I'm doing right now? Can I keep up with those guys in front, or do I need to like defend from the guys behind, or? There's there's different strategies that you're trying to take are you on the right line? Because Molokai's something where, you've got your GPS or whatever, and you're aiming for a certain location. Did I go too high? Have I read the cards correctly? Like, all those different things come into the race. But at the same time, yeah, like it's a reasonably long paddle but I'd done a fair few of those type of paddles in training. It was funny, one of the paddles before I went away, I had my headphones in and I was just calling people. So I was like I'm doing a level two session it's nice and easy. But I just got to get the K's in the arms and get used to sitting in the ski for that long. So I was making phone calls. And I guess the other interesting thing was, I was coming into China Wars and I could see my watch like lighting up so obviously was coming third and I had a couple people like messaging me going come on, Mike, go all out, push. Like you're nearly there. Like you're going to get third if you can hold this position, that was cool because it was the first time that I'd done it without a support boat. I'd never really used a support boat necessarily before, it was just one of the requirements that you had to have for every race and this year they fortunately allowed us not to have it and, obviously saves a bit of money and I didn't really think I needed it. So the only thing yeah everything was good about the race, but yeah, as far as it goes with whether it's long or whether it's short it's both. 

Holly Pye: How have things changed since the first time you did Molokai because it's been several times now and going by your rule of three years you go once and you learn and then you mix it up and then you try and do really well. Has that been the same with this event? 

Michael Booth: I think it's changed just because of the way that I've done it. The first time I went over it was 2011, I think, and I went over so naive. I flew over there I was staying on a, or somewhere. I was borrowing a boat, like I knew nothing about the island, so I was probably staying in the wrong area I didn't have an escort boat organized, like I was just super naive, like I just ah, "it'll work out when I get there", and one of my good friends, Chloe Hill, we had this saying everything works out, so that's how we lived, in those early days, and we'd just try and get enough, income to pay for the race, or pay for the flight there, and then try and make some, prize money to pay for your expenses or something like that, and then just keep doing that. That was like the goal and going back, that was probably the, for me, the one that I did this year, probably the actual second race, if that makes sense. I think I've done two more since then, but like I did the stand up Molokai in 2019 where I raced James Casey and I just didn't get the chance to prepare, like I went to Europe for two months and was competing and it wasn't something that I had time to prepare for properly.

So that was, for me, it was like, ah, like a bit of a. What would you call it? Missed opportunity in a way, but at the same time, I did as much as I could, racing on the EuroTour, I ended up winning that and not really doing any distance work a bit naive that I thought I could go there and paddle for the UK without any preparation, and I also paddled the Surf ski that year doing the same thing, I was just traveling around, racing everywhere and not really doing any training, and so you can't really do that as far as going to mix it up I think, the next one I really know what I know I could probably do if I do the training plan that I know I could do if I have the time but ultimately with that race it's just about having the time to get on the water and do the work and you just don't really have it as you get older like I think your time is a lot more limited you have a lot more responsibilities and fortunately or unfortunately like I, I've chosen to have all these responsibilities, with the family and like with work and, but those things keep me paddling.

It's like trying to find that balance between if I wasn't doing all these other things, I wouldn't be paddling anymore. But at the same time, I'm still, a little bit in my mind that selfish 20 year old who just wants to paddle and, just paddle for a living and that's all I want to do. It's yeah, it's definitely changed the way that I've thought about things, but at the same time, still trying to achieve the best results that I can. 

Holly Pye: Cool. And how have things changed now that you have a family and a child? 

Michael Booth: I think you just want to spend more time with them. I think you'll enjoy that family unit more. Especially during the pandemic when I was traveling a lot by myself, it was like a lot harder. Going for two weeks, going back for a week, going back for two weeks, going back for two weeks. Like it was just back and forth all the time because you felt like you were missing all these opportunities with your boy and like obviously building that, that family unit as well. Like having the... Like the house as well, like we've never had a house before, so that was a cool milestone for us to achieve and we always live out of a suitcase, six to eight months of the year, and then, live with parents or something like that for the other bit. And that's been really awesome, and obviously having a little bit of responsibility as well, like with the coaching online, with the clinics that I do. With the coaching in person I do here in Perth I really enjoy that as well, seeing other people do well and, having some part in that, like obviously you're just helping people achieve what they can already achieve and with a little bit of push and guidance and support, but that is definitely fulfilling as well. So it's like shifting the, I don't know, the self belief, but shifting into other people so they can achieve as well and you definitely get a fulfilling, part of that as well. 

Holly Pye: How did you get into coaching? Did you, and writing training plans and stuff, was that just from your own experience, or did you have any kind of support or qualifications in in training?

Michael Booth: My only qualifications was that I did it a lot. I had a lot of different coaches, by the way. I was fortunate to have, the best coaches in surf lifesaving, the best coaches in kayaking at least in Australia. Like a lot of good coaches through my junior ranks and that type of thing and I think it got to early SUP days, maybe 2017, 2018, maybe 2017 I think it was. I just had a few people ask me like, "do you do coaching? Can you coach me?" And I was like, "yeah, I think I can. Yeah, let's do it. Let's give it a go". I've always been a yes man, just I'll work it out as I go and that's how I began, coaching. I didn't really have any qualifications. I didn't really have any qualifications until the last couple of years and technically, I don't have any qualifications as far as sporting bodies going in stand up or ocean ski or anything like that. But I got, I had to get the accreditation in surf lifesaving. But I started that without having, that accreditation necessarily at the start. I think the knowledge that you have from doing sometimes is... I think more than the course. There's a lot of cookie cutter courses out there that you can go out and say, I'm a SUP coach, or I'm a something other coach, or that type of thing. And maybe it depends on your definition of a coach and I think your results will speak for themselves. I've been fortunate to coach a lot of good athletes, a lot of good like intermediate paddlers, a lot of people I've been fortunate to make them enjoy the sport more or, enjoy the different parts of whether it's ocean, like any ocean sport or other things that they do. And that's where I focus my attention and building the person and the character as well as the athlete. I think that's something that's been critical for me through my coaching is being a little bit more holistic with the way I do things and not just focusing on this is what you should do and this is what I did or something or anyone else did and this is what you should do because it worked for me.

And it's not really how it works. I have that philosophy of trying to find out get to know the person and then work out how they can get better based on how much time they have, how focused they are on it, how motivated they are on it or, someone's goals, like I have a squad of about 80 to 90 people here in Perth and when I send out a coaching goal sheet each year, some people have the goal of having fun and that's awesome. So I'll help them have fun like, I won't be hard on them and that type of thing, but some people want to be Australian champions or world champions or whatever it might be and like I have to be really hard on you, and you have to be better, and you have to be better week in, week out, every session, if that's what you want to do and then if at some point you realize that's not what you want to do, that's okay. But it was really just targeting individuals and helping them achieve what they want, and helping them find out the way to get there. 

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah, that sounds super unique, and super special, too. You sound very similar, actually, to Larry Cain. I find his coaching style is very similar to that. He is more like, "Okay, I'm going to... Observe your behavior and understand okay, what are your goals? What does motivate you? We'll have this plan for a little bit, but we'll keep checking in to know how do you want to get better or have your goals changed? Do you want to make it fun because we can make this fun or if you want to be serious? We can get serious" and I think that's it's authentic it's real and it's also like innovative too, right? Because exactly what you're saying not just like a coach laying out a plan and saying this worked for me for example, someone like Larry, who's it worked for me when I won gold at the 1984 Olympics so you have to do this now. It's "no let's play around with it let's tweak the program and see what works for you to have the most success". I bet that must be, like, really satisfying for you, eh, as a coach, just to see people's progression and get to know the paddler, too, a bit more on a personal level. Do you find you have clients that you're like, wow, this is really cool to watch your growth from point A to point B? 

Michael Booth: Absolutely. And the clients that I end up working best with end up being your really good friends as well, right? Because you have a like mind, you're trying to achieve things together and it's one of my favorite things like going to Europe and seeing a lot of the athletes that I have and just catching up with them and having a beer with them or go for coffee or team at an event. That that's something that I really enjoy and I spoke earlier I think about the community and that sort of aspect of sport, which I've enjoyed for a long time. And to your point, like yeah Larry's great. I actually had, I didn't know him that well, but I had a really long chat with him on one of my podcasts a couple of years ago now, and jeez, we really enjoyed the chat and we kept going and it was like, it got to the point where I was like, "do you have time? Cause we can keep going". He's like "yeah". So we were going for an hour and a long time, but we ended up coming to the realization, it's yeah, "you're like me, but like 20 years younger" and I was like, "yeah, you're about right". So I think, just finding and this is probably a bit more holistic but - just finding what you enjoy in life and creating that into a business or something that you enjoy doing or a work thing that you enjoy doing. I think that's, I don't know, that's part of what life's about and I've been very fortunate to find paddling and find coaching and being able to, focus in on that and being able to be, a successful athlete in a way and a successful coach in a way as well. That's something that I know I find really fulfilling, and I'll hopefully be able to do it for a little bit longer.

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah that's awesome. Honestly, I think so far you've had such an incredible, amazing athletic career, and now that you've been able to translate it into coaching with like Booth training over the past few years too, I think big pat on the back for you, Michael! That's quite the accomplishment, definitely keep going because it's awesome. I'm not going to be a hater I want to motivate you, but I don't want to say something bad, to motivate you but... (laughs) yeah!

Michael Booth: No I can get motivation from positive things too, but Maddi, thanks for that!

Holly Pye: There's a training group near me in the UK, and we've been chatting about the, the mental side of racing and there's people who are self admitting that they're really good at training and really bad at racing. They stick to the plan. They do everything they need to do, they've got the fitness, they've got the skills, but when it comes down to the pressure of racing, they really struggle to actually put their training into practice and to perform as well as they could do when they're paddling on their own and when they're training. How would you deal with that as a coach, if you had somebody who was good at training and not so good at racing, but they wanted to achieve all of their goals with racing. What would you, how would you approach that? 

Michael Booth: I'd make them race all the time. So whether you're competing at a local time trial, or with your friends in a group, or whether you're competing at the world title the feelings are all the same. And I've always said if I no longer feel that, then I don't want to race anymore, because when you're on the start line, you still, you've got to get off the line, you've got to know who your competition are. You've got to be comfortable with where you're at on that start line as well. You can follow all the structures and the procedures in the world, but if you can't get going off that line there's, it's all a waste of time and I always find mentality is 50% of racing. So you can do all the physicality you want, but if you can't, find your zone and be able to execute what you've learnt in your training and your training is not really that valuable to you, so how do work on that mental side of things to know, A, when I finish this race, I'm going to know that I couldn't have done any more. That's my main thing that I tell people, it's like, when you finish, if you couldn't have done any more, you've won. That's all you can do. You can't necessarily win the race all the time, because as much as you want to and as much like even when at my level like I always want to win like that's just the way it is and I'll come away and I'll debrief myself but as long as I can work out that I couldn't have done anymore then that's a win for me and that mentality I think goes into all areas of life, if you're somebody who is self motivated, who can get up and go training, when you're supposed to go and, set that structure, set those guidelines for yourself you are going to be successful, not only in sport, but in all areas of life and that's something that I, as a coach, really focus on, especially with the younger kids that I coach. I have a squad between, let's say, 13 and 75. There's just such a big... range, especially here in Perth and when you're coaching a younger person, you're just trying to instill, good habits, good mentality, and helping them along the way. When they get to 20, you're like, okay, so what do you really want to do? If you want to do that, then these are the things that you need to do to get there. But you need to do it. I can't do it for you. I can't babysit you along the way. When you're on that start line, I'm not there with you. I can't do it for you. But then you've obviously got the older athletes who, have different goals where they might want to make six minutes a mile, six minutes a kilometer, like that's goal for a lot of people or get under, 28 minutes for 5k or whatever it is. So it's but they're like, sometimes they really struggle with, trying, being able to do their best when it counts.

I think that's something that people miss a little bit where they want to be the Tuesday night, 4 p. m. six interval champion, it's like that doesn't matter you need to stand up when it's important. You need to stand up when like everyone gets counted and that goes for whether you're going for a job I like whether you're going for a job. You've got a like that's a critical moment, that's a critical moment of pressure. You have to perform in that job interview or whether you're you know negotiating a contract for your job or you can negotiate a contract for your house or your car or whatever it is or all these things, you really have to be accountable and you have to be able to perform when the pressure comes and some people will be able to do that and some people won't, but definitely everybody can improve at it.

Holly Pye: I guess it's just like confidence in your own ability, basically, isn't it? Knowing that you are capable of doing something, it's just a case of getting on with it and not being distracted. Do you coach the mental side of things as well then? Or do you mainly focus on the physical preparations for your paddlers? 

Michael Booth: I would focus a little bit on everything, and I think you pick up on indicators for different athletes when you can tell they're down, or you can tell, they're getting a little bit ahead of themselves, or sometimes, you've got to bring them up, and sometimes you've got to bring them down a little bit, so you've got to really be across that, and sometimes you think that you're a bit of a psychologist, I think, as well, and, you can be a helpful psychologist, or you can be not that good, and I've had to learn over my, time as a coach to get better at these different things, and I'm definitely not someone who has all the answers. I definitely don't, and I just always try and be the best that I can in that coaching environment. But as far as coaching, I think it's important if you are training in a group as well, the sense of community is super important, and I say to my kids that I have that I coach, just thank each other for the session. That's something that I learned from one of my coaches, actually Sprint kayaker Anders Gustafsson. He's actually in Canada. He's the head coach of the Canadians sprint team now, and he was always like, "thank each other for your sessions give each other like a fist bump or a high five or whatever it is and make sure that, everyone is thankful that we're all here together, we're all here for our own goals, but we're all here to push each other forward" and that's something that I try and instill in my athletes, but also in the consensual community, making sure that you're catching up for, whether it's a coffee after training and you're not talking about training, you're talking about whatever's going on, whatever you're interested in.

Whether you're going for dinners together and, creating that group and community environment, I think it's important, but also some athletes don't have that. So then trying to create that, whether it's online or whether it's in a group on Facebook or, just linking with like minded people and pushing yourself forward because sometimes it can be lonely, especially for those athletes who are out by themselves, training week in, week out, by themselves reaching this goal a long way down the track, and I even find that sometimes when I've done a lot of training by myself, and ah no one even cares I'm just here, I'm by myself, it's like lonely, but eventually I'm going to get there, but sometimes you get let it you lead yourself astray a little bit, so it's about focusing on that path and trying to stay motivated throughout that, but I guess to answer your question, I think it's about coaching all aspects of training, whether it's mental, it's physical, and it's like a holistic approach and even trying to help them be better with their, like with their work life or, like that's important too because if they're having a terrible time at work, they're not turning up to training after work. So you've got to make sure, okay, what's going on at work? Why are you like not feeling, happy or whatever it is because, or can you get up and go train before work so you feel good and, feel motivated and then you go to work, so you don't feel run down after your work. You get up every morning, you're like excited to go paddling. There's so many different ways you can look at it, but... I try and be super holistic with everything that I do.

Holly Pye: You end up being like a therapist as well. But it sounds a little... Yeah, a little bit. That's so cool. I'm sure they really appreciate all of the support. 

Michael Booth: Yeah, it's just getting to know the person and, being there for them and trying to help them, be the best they can be.  

Maddi Leblanc: Do you find that challenging with clients that through booth training, you have to coach online? Do you feel like the relationship is a little bit different or just challenging because it's through a screen or do you hop on Zoom calls where it is a little more personable?

Michael Booth: Obviously there's varying levels of the coaching and I probably, sometimes I give a little bit more than what they're getting charged for, but... Ultimately, I just want to see people do well, and sometimes I have more time than others, and I'm able to, give people more of it and also, it doesn't necessarily work with everybody. I definitely had, athletes or clients, depending on how you look at it, who... Definitely have it sync with the program and I always feel like, oh, I haven't done a good job and I should have done more, I should have done this. But sometimes it just doesn't, it doesn't gel and you have people, leave the program, pretty quickly and kinda disappointing in yourself 'cause okay, same as like racing, it's like, what could I done more? Like, how could have I helped this person better? Or, but then you also have some athletes who are awesome who you know, do everything that I ask of them. If I ask them to update how they felt after the session, or how they were feeling, or send me a comment after each session they're the people that I work the best with, because they give me the information that I need to help them better the ones who obviously have the FaceTime and the phone calls and that they're always much better to work with, because I know them better, and I can actually help them more.

Some unfortunately don't, sign up to plan, but they aren't this is my opinion anyway. They aren't necessarily motivated to do the work. They're not really, fully in. They've got their foot half out the door all the time and it's oh, why? And then you're constantly trying to even ask them "Okay, how's it going? Have you done the session? Like, why haven't you watched? You haven't told me how you're going" like, all those type of things and it gets to a point where you're like, I just, I can only do so much and maybe I should be focusing my attention on the athletes who are here to make them better. Yeah, it is a bit of a balance and you're always trying to be awesome at what you do, but sometimes you do feel like, Ah, I did fail a little bit there, so it's a bit of a balance. 

Maddi Leblanc: Yeah I think that's totally, that's definitely normal in terms of the human side of life and business, right? Trying to always perform at your best and succeed, but you learn a lot and you grow and I'm actually curious, like, how long have you been running Booth training specifically? Like, how long has this been a business for you? 

Michael Booth: I'm, I don't know. I think I, I worked it out and I put it on my LinkedIn one time, but I don't use that much, but I think it was 20... mid 2017. But I did have people I was coaching that I didn't call Booth Training. Cause originally it was called Training by Boothie actually. One of my, one of my clients at the time, Dave White from Melbourne, he was like, I was like, "what do you reckon I should call it?" Cause I didn't have many at the time. I was just... I was coaching like Charlotte Spicer from New Zealand, and I had Angie and Paul Jackson I think, on the plan, and it was like super early days, and people just asked me like, "Oh, can you help can you help me coach" and that type of thing, or "help, make me a better athlete", and yeah, so then, then it just, obviously, I was like, "Oh, maybe I can do this it's like having a sponsor like I've, I've got a few sponsors to help me get around, but now I've got my own sponsor that, helps me" and my own sponsor ended up being like my main gig now. So it's definitely my coaching and my own business stuff is the main income source now for me. It's something that I definitely take pride in and I try and do well in. But yes, it's been, yes, six, seven years, I guess I've been doing the coaching.

Maddi Leblanc: Wow. Oh that's so phenomenal. I think I'm curious too, for just our listeners, where can they find more information about your training or join, join in on one of your programs? If someone is interested to learn more or wants to start training with you? 

Michael Booth: Absolutely. So all my stuff is on Instagram, Facebook, at Booth Training, or you can go to my website, michael booth.com.au forward slash Booth dash training. So plenty of information there about the different plans and things that I offer. But if it's not something that works for you, definitely get in contact and I'm sure we can come to an arrangement where hopefully it works out. 

Maddi Leblanc: That's awesome. I'm sure we can leave the links to your website and your Instagram and all your social media in our show notes so that people can find you, and train with you, and have an awesome time on the water, no matter where you are in the world. Whether you're in Perth or not. 

Michael Booth: Yeah, it becomes a bit irrelevant, I think, when you're, especially when you're coaching people in like the States, and then people on like similar time zones to Australia and then in Europe, like I, I wake up and I have so many messages from different parts of the world. So it's I have to turn it off at a certain time, but at the same time, when I'm in Europe, I'm like better in Europe. Obviously, when I'm in America, I'm better in America, but just yeah, it just depends, but it all really runs well. We're pretty fortunate these days where I think we're saying earlier, like probably you're in the UK and Maddi's in Canada and we're all having a conversation all on different time zones. We're pretty fortunate. I think, page bracket where we can have access to the whole world in the, on my phone.

Holly Pye: That's pretty cool and yeah, having all of those messages coming through at all times of day is a cool problem to have. Like it's a problem because you don't switch off and yeah, sometimes it's probably the middle of the night for you and it's completely the opposite for someone else. But also how cool is it that you get to do such amazing work to help your own paddling but also help other people's. It's really awesome. 

Michael Booth: That's actually a really cool point. I find coaching motivates me now more than training does now. I think training for myself, like we talked about that intrinsic and extrinsic motivation earlier on, and I think that extrinsic, of, I don't know whether it's, like you might mind me saying, like Peter in Switzerland going out and doing a 45 kilometer paddler because he's got like 11 cities coming up or Henrik in, Denmark doing the same thing or John on the, the east coast of the states like getting up and going train 6am and then he's got to run a doctor's practice. Like that sounds pretty cool, like you're like, "okay these guys are getting up, I gotta get up as well". So I get definitely a lot of motivation from them. 

Holly Pye: That's so great to hear. Thanks so much for joining us today. It's been really awesome having this conversation and yeah, I've learned a lot actually about, what, it's really interesting hearing what motivates other people and in the same way that you coach your athletes it's interesting for us to hear what it takes to be the best. It was really good to speak with you and we really appreciate your time spent with us today. And what time is it now for you? 

Michael Booth: Thank you. It's almost 9pm but thanks Holly, thanks Maddi for having me on the podcast and hope to see you guys in Europe or in America very soon. 

Holly Pye: Yeah have a good night and yeah, hopefully see you soon. Bye guys.

Maddi Leblanc: Bye guys! 

Holly Pye: Thanks so much for listening today to this episode with Michael Booth. We hope to see you again next week for another episode of Rise and Glide but in the meantime please subscribe to the podcast and leave us a rating and I hope you get on the water this week. 

Maddi Leblanc: Rise and Glide is brought to you by the team behind Paddle Logger. Get more from your paddling with the Paddle Logger app. Find it on the Apple App Store today!